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What wins the Battle of the Super-Fighters: the US’ F-35, or Russia’s Su-57?译文简介
在超级战机的对抗之中谁会获胜:美国的F-35还是俄罗斯的苏-57?俄美网友互喷
正文翻译
What wins the Battle of the Super-Fighters: the US’ F-35, or Russia’s Su-57?
在超级战机的对抗之中谁会获胜:美国的F-35还是俄罗斯的苏-57?
在超级战机的对抗之中谁会获胜:美国的F-35还是俄罗斯的苏-57?

(L) F-35 figher plane vs (R) Su-57 fighter plane
(左) F-35战斗机 vs (右)苏-57战斗机



However, the F-35 was not the only cutting-edge combat aircraft to be launched at the turn of the millennium. As the 2000s progressed, the eyes of the US and its Western allies looked to the east, as the military heavyweight of Russia grew closer to rolling out its first indigenously developed fifth-generation stealth fighter.
然而,F-35并不是在世纪之交推出的唯一一款尖端战机。随着21世纪头10年的进展,美国及其西方盟友将目光投向了东方,俄罗斯这个军事重量级国家越来越接近推出第首款自主研发的第五代隐形战机。
然而,F-35并不是在世纪之交推出的唯一一款尖端战机。随着21世纪头10年的进展,美国及其西方盟友将目光投向了东方,俄罗斯这个军事重量级国家越来越接近推出第首款自主研发的第五代隐形战机。

For the last decade, manufacturers and operators have continued to grow and mature the abilities of the F-35 and Su-57. These fighters are intended to serve as a strong deterrent in key flashpoint regions across the globe, which are growing in importance as political tensions between the West and East continue to rise.
在过去的十年里,制造商和企业一直在发展和成熟F-35和Su-57的能力。这些战机的目的是在全球关键的爆发点地区起到强大的威慑力量作用,随着东西方之间的政治紧张局势持续升级,这些地区的重要性日益增强。
在过去的十年里,制造商和企业一直在发展和成熟F-35和Su-57的能力。这些战机的目的是在全球关键的爆发点地区起到强大的威慑力量作用,随着东西方之间的政治紧张局势持续升级,这些地区的重要性日益增强。
As NATO alliance members convert from their older combat aircraft to the F-35, Russia begins to silently induct its first serial production Su-57s into operational service.
随着北约成员国从老式战机转为F-35战机,俄罗斯开始悄悄将其首批批量生产的苏-57投入实战服务。
随着北约成员国从老式战机转为F-35战机,俄罗斯开始悄悄将其首批批量生产的苏-57投入实战服务。
So which one has the edge? Let’s take a closer look…
那么哪一款战机有优势呢?让我们深入研究一番……
那么哪一款战机有优势呢?让我们深入研究一番……
Capabilities
能力
能力
The Su-57 is primarily an air superiority fighter, with a secondary focus on conducting strike missions, much like the F-22. Unlike the Su-57, the F-35 family was designed to be a pure-bred, fifth-generation multi-role stealth fighter that can conduct a variety of missions across a multi-domain battlespace.
苏-57首先是一种空中优势战斗机,其次是执行打击任务,很像F-22战机。与苏-57不同,F-35系列被设计为纯粹的第五代多功能隐形战斗机,可以在多领域的战场上执行各种任务。
苏-57首先是一种空中优势战斗机,其次是执行打击任务,很像F-22战机。与苏-57不同,F-35系列被设计为纯粹的第五代多功能隐形战斗机,可以在多领域的战场上执行各种任务。
The Lightning II has the ability to undertake air superiority, close air support, electronic warfare, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, strategic attack and the suppression/destruction of enemy air defence missions.
闪电II战机有能力获取空中优势、近距离空中支援、电子战、情报、监视和侦察、战略攻击和压制/摧毁敌人防空任务。
闪电II战机有能力获取空中优势、近距离空中支援、电子战、情报、监视和侦察、战略攻击和压制/摧毁敌人防空任务。
At present, just one serial production variant of the Su-57 exists – although Russia has highlighted that a number of different versions of the baseline platform could be developed. The nation first promoted a second variant, the Su-57E, in March 2019, which would be the designation given to examples of the fighter that are exported to international customers.
目前,苏-57只有一个批量生产的改进型——尽管俄罗斯强调可以开发出许多不同版本的基础平台。该国在2019年3月首次推出了第二款改进型,即苏-57E,这将是出口给国际客户的战机型号名称。
目前,苏-57只有一个批量生产的改进型——尽管俄罗斯强调可以开发出许多不同版本的基础平台。该国在2019年3月首次推出了第二款改进型,即苏-57E,这将是出口给国际客户的战机型号名称。
Where can they be used?
它们能应用于哪些场景?
它们能应用于哪些场景?

Sukhoi’s Su-57 shares the same employability as the F-35A, given that both platforms operate solely from prepared land-based runways. However, what gives the Lightning II the edge is its ability to be employed from aircraft carriers and amphibious assault ships through the F-35B and F-35C variants.
苏霍伊的苏-57与F-35A具有同样的功能性,因为这两种平台都只在准备好的地面跑道上起降。然而,闪电II的优势在于它可以通过F-35B和F-35C衍生型号,从航空母舰和两栖攻击舰上使用。
苏霍伊的苏-57与F-35A具有同样的功能性,因为这两种平台都只在准备好的地面跑道上起降。然而,闪电II的优势在于它可以通过F-35B和F-35C衍生型号,从航空母舰和两栖攻击舰上使用。
These versions of the platform allow operators to project combat air power directly into a maritime domain from a base that is deployable to any corner of the globe.
该平台的这些版本允许操作员从可部署到全球任何角落的基地直接将作战空中力量投射到海上领域。
该平台的这些版本允许操作员从可部署到全球任何角落的基地直接将作战空中力量投射到海上领域。
Design and speed
设计和速度
设计和速度
The most noticeable difference between the F-35 and Su-57 is in their overall design. The aerodynamic shape of the larger Su-57 is heavily optimised for achieving a high lift-to-drag ratio while flying at supersonic speeds, making it faster than the F-35. With two afterburning turbofan engines to the F-35’s one, the Su-57’s engines are also optimised to allow the aircraft to supercruise (fly supersonic without using the afterburner).
F-35和苏-57之间最明显的区别在于它们的整体设计。更大的苏-57的空气动力学形状经过了高度优化,以实现超音速飞行时的高升阻比,使其比F-35更快。与F-35的单个发动机相比,苏-57的两台加力涡扇发动机也进行了优化,使飞机能够超巡航(不使用补燃器的超音速飞行)。
F-35和苏-57之间最明显的区别在于它们的整体设计。更大的苏-57的空气动力学形状经过了高度优化,以实现超音速飞行时的高升阻比,使其比F-35更快。与F-35的单个发动机相比,苏-57的两台加力涡扇发动机也进行了优化,使飞机能够超巡航(不使用补燃器的超音速飞行)。
As well as that, the Russian fighter features a thrust vectoring capability, which gives it supermanoeuvrable handling qualities in flight.
除此之外,俄罗斯战斗机还具有推力矢量控制能力,这使它在飞行中具有超机动性操控特性。
除此之外,俄罗斯战斗机还具有推力矢量控制能力,这使它在飞行中具有超机动性操控特性。
Stealth
隐身能力
隐身能力
In terms of stealth capability, there is a longstanding debate on how stealthy the Su-57 actually is, although earlier issues with its low-observable signature have seemingly improved as production begins to ramp up.
在隐形能力方面,关于苏-57到底有多隐形一直存在争议,尽管随着产量的增加,苏-57早期的低可见特征似乎有所改善。
在隐身能力方面,关于苏-57到底有多隐身的争论由来已久,尽管随着产量的增加,早期关于其低可观测特征的问题似乎有所改善。
在隐形能力方面,关于苏-57到底有多隐形一直存在争议,尽管随着产量的增加,苏-57早期的低可见特征似乎有所改善。
在隐身能力方面,关于苏-57到底有多隐身的争论由来已久,尽管随着产量的增加,早期关于其低可观测特征的问题似乎有所改善。
Meanwhile, despite the F-35 benefitting from Lockheed Martin’s long history of developing stealth technologies, it has its own issues. The F-35B and C variants are at risk of suffering structural damage and losing their low-observable signature if they fly supersonic for prolonged periods of time.
与此同时,尽管F-35受益于洛克希德·马丁公司长期开发隐形技术的历史,但它也有自己的问题。如果F-35B和C的变种长时间超音速飞行,它们将面临遭受结构损坏和失去其低可见特征的风险。
与此同时,尽管F-35得益于洛克希德·马丁公司开发隐形技术的悠久历史,但它也有自己的问题。F-35B和C变型如果长时间超音速飞行,有遭受结构损坏和失去低可观测特征的风险。
与此同时,尽管F-35受益于洛克希德·马丁公司长期开发隐形技术的历史,但它也有自己的问题。如果F-35B和C的变种长时间超音速飞行,它们将面临遭受结构损坏和失去其低可见特征的风险。
与此同时,尽管F-35得益于洛克希德·马丁公司开发隐形技术的悠久历史,但它也有自己的问题。F-35B和C变型如果长时间超音速飞行,有遭受结构损坏和失去低可观测特征的风险。
Futuristic tech
未来的科技
未来的科技


Weapons
武器系统
武器系统
In terms of their respective armaments, both aircraft can be equipped with an array of munitions, comprising a variety of air-to-air/air-to-surface missiles, anti-ship missiles, and bombs, although the F-35 has a wider sextion of weapons to choose from. To maintain their low-observable characteristics, both fighters feature internal weapons bays. They each have external hardpoints where munitions and fuel tanks can be carried at the expense of stealth. The Su-57 boasts 12 hardpoints to the F-35’s ten.
在它们各自的武器方面,两款战机都可以装备一系列弹药,包括各种空对空/空对地导弹、反舰导弹和炸弹,不过F-35的武器选择范围更广。为了保持其低探测性特点,这两款战机都配备了内置武器舱。它们都有外部挂载点,在那里可以牺牲隐身能力为代价携带弹药和燃油箱。苏-57拥有12个挂载点,而F-35有10个挂载点。
在它们各自的武器方面,两款战机都可以装备一系列弹药,包括各种空对空/空对地导弹、反舰导弹和炸弹,不过F-35的武器选择范围更广。为了保持其低探测性特点,这两款战机都配备了内置武器舱。它们都有外部挂载点,在那里可以牺牲隐身能力为代价携带弹药和燃油箱。苏-57拥有12个挂载点,而F-35有10个挂载点。
Which other countries use them?
还有哪些国家在使用它们?
还有哪些国家在使用它们?
Although both platforms were developed from the outset to be available to customers on the export market, there is no doubt that the F-35 has excelled over the Su-57 in this area – helped by the fact that it is the product of a multinational development programme. The Su-57 was developed domestically, despite efforts by Russia to co-develop a variant of the type with India.
尽管这两种平台从一开始就开发出来供出口市场的客户使用,但毫无疑问,F-35在这一领域的表现优于苏-57——得益于它是一个多国开发项目的产品。苏-57是在国内发展的,尽管俄罗斯努力与印度共同发展一种改进型。
尽管这两种平台从一开始就开发出来供出口市场的客户使用,但毫无疑问,F-35在这一领域的表现优于苏-57——得益于它是一个多国开发项目的产品。苏-57是在国内发展的,尽管俄罗斯努力与印度共同发展一种改进型。

But 12 nations have officially ordered the F-35 to replace older fleets, with more set to follow, while the US plans to acquire a total of 2,443 F-35s across all three variants to equip the Air Force, Marines and Navy.
但12个国家已正式下令用F-35取代老旧战机,还有更多国家准备效仿,而美国计划总共采购2443架F-35,涵盖所有三种衍生型号,以装备空军、海军陆战队和海军。
但12个国家已正式下令用F-35取代老旧战机,还有更多国家准备效仿,而美国计划总共采购2443架F-35,涵盖所有三种衍生型号,以装备空军、海军陆战队和海军。
All together, this will take the number of F-35s in operation to way above 3,000. It would be almost impossible for the Su-57 to match this export success.
总而言之,这将使现役F-35战机数量超过3000架。对于苏-57来说,要赶上这种出口成绩几乎是不可能的。
总而言之,这将使现役F-35战机数量超过3000架。对于苏-57来说,要赶上这种出口成绩几乎是不可能的。
Conclusion
结论
结论


Yet where the F-35 really wins is in its numbers and export success. With more than 3,000 set to be rolled out for operators across the globe, it is going to be a real struggle to pin the F-35 platform down anywhere – and that will make it exceptionally hard to fight against.
然而,F-35真正获胜的地方在于它的数量和出口的成功。全球将有3000多架F-35战斗机投入应用,要把F-35平台部署在任何地方将是一场真正的考验,这将使它变得异常难以对抗。
然而,F-35真正获胜的地方在于它的数量和出口的成功。全球将有3000多架F-35战斗机投入应用,要把F-35平台部署在任何地方将是一场真正的考验,这将使它变得异常难以对抗。
评论翻译
ErgoSum
Once an adversary in an SU57 has seen an F35, the F35 pilot has only two choices. Eject or die.
It was soundly defeated in a dog fight with an F16. The F16, (a 47 year old design), was carrying external fuel tanks, and the F35 was clean and unloaded.
Not only will the SU57 out manoeuvre it, it has two engines as opposed to one, giving it greater survivability, and, as soon as the F35 carries any external load, it is no longer, "stealthy".
The F35 was designed to try and be a multi multi role aircraft, but it is a dud in all roles.
一旦在对抗中苏57发现到了F35, F35飞行员只有两个选择:弹射逃跑或死亡。
F35在与一架F16战斗机的格斗中被彻底击败了。F16(有47年历史的设计)携带着外部燃料箱,F35是干净的,没有外部挂载。
苏-57不仅机动灵活,而且它有两个引擎而不是单个引擎,这让它有更大的生存能力,一旦F35携带任何外部挂载,它就不再具有“隐身能力”了。
F35的设计初衷是尝试成为一种多功能战机,但它在所有功能中都是一个废物。
Once an adversary in an SU57 has seen an F35, the F35 pilot has only two choices. Eject or die.
It was soundly defeated in a dog fight with an F16. The F16, (a 47 year old design), was carrying external fuel tanks, and the F35 was clean and unloaded.
Not only will the SU57 out manoeuvre it, it has two engines as opposed to one, giving it greater survivability, and, as soon as the F35 carries any external load, it is no longer, "stealthy".
The F35 was designed to try and be a multi multi role aircraft, but it is a dud in all roles.
一旦在对抗中苏57发现到了F35, F35飞行员只有两个选择:弹射逃跑或死亡。
F35在与一架F16战斗机的格斗中被彻底击败了。F16(有47年历史的设计)携带着外部燃料箱,F35是干净的,没有外部挂载。
苏-57不仅机动灵活,而且它有两个引擎而不是单个引擎,这让它有更大的生存能力,一旦F35携带任何外部挂载,它就不再具有“隐身能力”了。
F35的设计初衷是尝试成为一种多功能战机,但它在所有功能中都是一个废物。

Juan_More
@ErgoSum
The Norwegian Blue Parrot of the aviation world. Beautiful plumage that F35 has squire!
航空界的挪威蓝鹦鹉,F35的羽毛真漂亮!
@ErgoSum
The Norwegian Blue Parrot of the aviation world. Beautiful plumage that F35 has squire!
航空界的挪威蓝鹦鹉,F35的羽毛真漂亮!
ambrosebear
@ErgoSum
Your logic is flawed, comrade.
你的逻辑有缺陷,同志。
@ErgoSum
Your logic is flawed, comrade.
你的逻辑有缺陷,同志。
DukeLeo
@ErgoSum
Yes, when the F-35 was introduced, it was tested and could not outfly the old F-16. Yes, the F-35 does carry an internal payload. However, what the articles omits to point out is that the pilot of the F-35 has to open the bomb bay periodically, so that missiles inside the bomb bay do not overheat and blow up. Until a few years back, the F-35 had 157 technical deficiencies. Have they been resolved ? At one time even the Pentagon wanted to scrap the F-35 project. Also, for every day the F-35 spends in the sky, it has to spend two days on the ground being serviced. Finally, when it comes to exports, the US quite simply bullied it's NATO members to buy the F-35. How many really wanted it ? Did Japan want it, especially after one of it's pilots disappeared into the Pacific flying the F-35 ? There is no way the F-35 can be superior to the SU-57.
是的,www.7969.cc登入:当F-35被引进时,它是经过测试的,比不上老旧的F-16。是的,F-35确实有内置载荷。然而文章没有指出的是,F-35的飞行员必须定期打开弹舱,这样炸弹舱里的导弹才不会过热而爆炸。直到几年前,F-35还存在157个技术缺陷,问题解决了吗?有一段时间,甚至五角大楼都想放弃F-35项目。此外,F-35在空中每待一天,就得在地面上待上两天。最后,在出口方面,美国只是简单地胁迫北约成员国购买F-35,有多少人真正想要它?日本想要它吗,尤其是在它的一名飞行员驾驶F-35在太平洋上失踪之后?F-35不可能比苏-57更好。
@ErgoSum
Yes, when the F-35 was introduced, it was tested and could not outfly the old F-16. Yes, the F-35 does carry an internal payload. However, what the articles omits to point out is that the pilot of the F-35 has to open the bomb bay periodically, so that missiles inside the bomb bay do not overheat and blow up. Until a few years back, the F-35 had 157 technical deficiencies. Have they been resolved ? At one time even the Pentagon wanted to scrap the F-35 project. Also, for every day the F-35 spends in the sky, it has to spend two days on the ground being serviced. Finally, when it comes to exports, the US quite simply bullied it's NATO members to buy the F-35. How many really wanted it ? Did Japan want it, especially after one of it's pilots disappeared into the Pacific flying the F-35 ? There is no way the F-35 can be superior to the SU-57.
是的,www.7969.cc登入:当F-35被引进时,它是经过测试的,比不上老旧的F-16。是的,F-35确实有内置载荷。然而文章没有指出的是,F-35的飞行员必须定期打开弹舱,这样炸弹舱里的导弹才不会过热而爆炸。直到几年前,F-35还存在157个技术缺陷,问题解决了吗?有一段时间,甚至五角大楼都想放弃F-35项目。此外,F-35在空中每待一天,就得在地面上待上两天。最后,在出口方面,美国只是简单地胁迫北约成员国购买F-35,有多少人真正想要它?日本想要它吗,尤其是在它的一名飞行员驾驶F-35在太平洋上失踪之后?F-35不可能比苏-57更好。
Hugh Boyle
@DukeLeo
And you need to mention that the Russia government wanted to scrap the 47 year old (yep, the SU-57 project is that old) project that lead to the Su-57 a number of times. The number of aircraft required was reduced over time to barely a trickle compared to the F-35. Last count for such an old project is that there are approx. 12 SU-57s flying. The SU-57 may be a great aircraft but it has had it's own share of problems.
你需要提到的是,俄罗斯政府曾多次想要废除已有47年历史的项目(是的,苏-57项目就是这么老的),这个项目导致了苏-57的诞生。随着时间的推移,与F-35相比,所需的飞机数量减少到了几乎微不足道的程度。对于这样一个老项目,最后的统计是有大约12架SU-57在飞行。苏-57也许是一架伟大的飞机,但它也有自己的问题。
@DukeLeo
And you need to mention that the Russia government wanted to scrap the 47 year old (yep, the SU-57 project is that old) project that lead to the Su-57 a number of times. The number of aircraft required was reduced over time to barely a trickle compared to the F-35. Last count for such an old project is that there are approx. 12 SU-57s flying. The SU-57 may be a great aircraft but it has had it's own share of problems.
你需要提到的是,俄罗斯政府曾多次想要废除已有47年历史的项目(是的,苏-57项目就是这么老的),这个项目导致了苏-57的诞生。随着时间的推移,与F-35相比,所需的飞机数量减少到了几乎微不足道的程度。对于这样一个老项目,最后的统计是有大约12架SU-57在飞行。苏-57也许是一架伟大的飞机,但它也有自己的问题。
GoTeamUSA
@ErgoSum
The SU57 will never see the F35 because it'll be at the bottom of the ocean by the time F35 approaches.
苏57永远也看不到F35,因为当F35接近时,苏57已经沉入海底了。
@ErgoSum
The SU57 will never see the F35 because it'll be at the bottom of the ocean by the time F35 approaches.
苏57永远也看不到F35,因为当F35接近时,苏57已经沉入海底了。
Hugh Boyle
@ErgoSum
Your facts are incomplete. The actual report stated it was essentially down to energy management in the early days of the F-35's testing, according to the report.
According to retired US Marine Corps Maj. Dan Flatley, who helped design the training syllabus for F-35 dogfights, the F-35's lackluster performance against legacy jets had more to do with old habits of the pilots and a weapons system in its infancy rather than anything wrong with the F-35 concept itself.
Sad how people have to twist the facts.
你的事实不完整。实际报告指出这基本上是由于F-35测试初期的能源管理问题。
据帮助设计F-35格斗训练大纲的退役美国海军陆战队少校丹·弗拉特利(Dan Flatley)说,F-35在对抗传统喷气式战机时表现平平,更多的是因为飞行员的旧习惯和初期的武器系统,而不是F-35概念本身出了什么问题。
可悲的是人们不得不扭曲事实。
@ErgoSum
Your facts are incomplete. The actual report stated it was essentially down to energy management in the early days of the F-35's testing, according to the report.
According to retired US Marine Corps Maj. Dan Flatley, who helped design the training syllabus for F-35 dogfights, the F-35's lackluster performance against legacy jets had more to do with old habits of the pilots and a weapons system in its infancy rather than anything wrong with the F-35 concept itself.
Sad how people have to twist the facts.
你的事实不完整。实际报告指出这基本上是由于F-35测试初期的能源管理问题。
据帮助设计F-35格斗训练大纲的退役美国海军陆战队少校丹·弗拉特利(Dan Flatley)说,F-35在对抗传统喷气式战机时表现平平,更多的是因为飞行员的旧习惯和初期的武器系统,而不是F-35概念本身出了什么问题。
可悲的是人们不得不扭曲事实。
KlausR922
@ErgoSum
why not fight 3 against 3 over the Pacific? like gladiators
为什么不在太平洋上打三对三?就像角斗士。
@ErgoSum
why not fight 3 against 3 over the Pacific? like gladiators
为什么不在太平洋上打三对三?就像角斗士。
PolitcsInc
Comparing the F35 to the SU57 is funny because at least the SU57 can take off (without the risk of the wings falling off on the runway), a feat the F-35 can barely match. But then the F-35 was never built for warfare, it was built as a black hole for the US to pour money down the corruption hole.
比较F35和SU57很有趣,因为至少SU57可以起飞(没有机翼在跑道上脱落的风险),这是F-35几乎无法匹敌的壮举。但是F-35从来都不是为了战争而制造的,它是作为一个黑洞而制造的,让美国把钱投入到这个腐败的黑洞。
Comparing the F35 to the SU57 is funny because at least the SU57 can take off (without the risk of the wings falling off on the runway), a feat the F-35 can barely match. But then the F-35 was never built for warfare, it was built as a black hole for the US to pour money down the corruption hole.
比较F35和SU57很有趣,因为至少SU57可以起飞(没有机翼在跑道上脱落的风险),这是F-35几乎无法匹敌的壮举。但是F-35从来都不是为了战争而制造的,它是作为一个黑洞而制造的,让美国把钱投入到这个腐败的黑洞。

Sovietski
@Rodgers Russia
"Stealth" by definition only means low-observable. Even a non-upgraded old radar is capable of tracking stealth fighters at closer distances. With modern AESA radars and specially designed anti-stealth low frequency radars, planes like the F-35 have no chance. That's why countries like Canada and Turkey jumped the JSF program and others are in line to do the same despite constant political/economic pressure from the US.
“隐形”的定义只是指不易被察觉,即使是未升级的老式雷达也能在更近的距离追踪隐形战斗机。有了现代的有源相控阵(AESA)雷达和特别设计的反隐身低频雷达,像F-35这样的飞机没有机会了。这就是为什么像加拿大和土耳其这样的国家不顾美国不断的政治/经济压力而退出联合攻击战斗机(JSF)项目,其他国家也在效仿。
@Rodgers Russia
"Stealth" by definition only means low-observable. Even a non-upgraded old radar is capable of tracking stealth fighters at closer distances. With modern AESA radars and specially designed anti-stealth low frequency radars, planes like the F-35 have no chance. That's why countries like Canada and Turkey jumped the JSF program and others are in line to do the same despite constant political/economic pressure from the US.
“隐形”的定义只是指不易被察觉,即使是未升级的老式雷达也能在更近的距离追踪隐形战斗机。有了现代的有源相控阵(AESA)雷达和特别设计的反隐身低频雷达,像F-35这样的飞机没有机会了。这就是为什么像加拿大和土耳其这样的国家不顾美国不断的政治/经济压力而退出联合攻击战斗机(JSF)项目,其他国家也在效仿。
Slavko
@Sovietski
Remember, during unprovoked invasion and bobbing of former Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) by US lead NATO of twenty years ago, two US stealth planes been knock down by Serbian defense; .. since than US obsolete the model!
NATO bombing for 78 days could not defeat and signed the peace agreement with Yugoslavia.
记住,20年前,在美国领导的北约无故入侵前南斯拉夫(塞尔维亚和黑山)期间,两架美国隐形飞机被塞尔维亚国防击落……于是美国淘汰了那款机型!
北约轰炸了78天也没能打败南斯拉夫,与南斯拉夫签署了和平协议。
@Sovietski
Remember, during unprovoked invasion and bobbing of former Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) by US lead NATO of twenty years ago, two US stealth planes been knock down by Serbian defense; .. since than US obsolete the model!
NATO bombing for 78 days could not defeat and signed the peace agreement with Yugoslavia.
记住,20年前,在美国领导的北约无故入侵前南斯拉夫(塞尔维亚和黑山)期间,两架美国隐形飞机被塞尔维亚国防击落……于是美国淘汰了那款机型!
北约轰炸了78天也没能打败南斯拉夫,与南斯拉夫签署了和平协议。
Crowfoot9
The unit price and maintenance cost for an F-35 is also twice as expensive than that of a SU-57.
So the Russians can deploy 2 of their best fighters for every US F-35.
That's not negligible when it comes to economic sustainability and export success.
And most of the companies that supply the US military are privately owned and traded on the stock market compared to Russia's state owned military industrial complex. Not very reassuring when your arms manufactures are more concerned with shareholders preoccupations rather than national security.
F-35的单价和维护成本也是苏-57的两倍。
所以俄罗斯可以部署2架他们最好的战斗机来对付美国的F-35
在经济可持续性和出口成功方面,这一点不容忽视。
而且,与俄罗斯国有军工企业相比,大多数为美国军方供货的企业都是私人所有并在股市上市交易的。当你们的武器制造商更关心股东的利益而不是国家安全时,这就不太令人放心了。
The unit price and maintenance cost for an F-35 is also twice as expensive than that of a SU-57.
So the Russians can deploy 2 of their best fighters for every US F-35.
That's not negligible when it comes to economic sustainability and export success.
And most of the companies that supply the US military are privately owned and traded on the stock market compared to Russia's state owned military industrial complex. Not very reassuring when your arms manufactures are more concerned with shareholders preoccupations rather than national security.
F-35的单价和维护成本也是苏-57的两倍。
所以俄罗斯可以部署2架他们最好的战斗机来对付美国的F-35
在经济可持续性和出口成功方面,这一点不容忽视。
而且,与俄罗斯国有军工企业相比,大多数为美国军方供货的企业都是私人所有并在股市上市交易的。当你们的武器制造商更关心股东的利益而不是国家安全时,这就不太令人放心了。


ZooWatch
@thrx_
"Too many conscxts with poor training". That's what the Germans though too. Finest esprit de corps, training and battle experienced military in the world at the time, brought to heel through sheer attrition of those many (Soviet) conscxts with poor training.
“太多训练不佳的应征兵”,德国人当年也是这么想的,当时世界上最优秀的团队精神、训练和战斗经验丰富的军队,通过大量训练不佳的(苏联)应征兵的纯粹消耗而屈服。
@thrx_
"Too many conscxts with poor training". That's what the Germans though too. Finest esprit de corps, training and battle experienced military in the world at the time, brought to heel through sheer attrition of those many (Soviet) conscxts with poor training.
“太多训练不佳的应征兵”,德国人当年也是这么想的,当时世界上最优秀的团队精神、训练和战斗经验丰富的军队,通过大量训练不佳的(苏联)应征兵的纯粹消耗而屈服。

Jason Rogers
@ZooWatch
Quote by Joseph Stalin: “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
约瑟夫·斯大林的名言:“数量本身就是一种质量。”
@ZooWatch
Quote by Joseph Stalin: “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
约瑟夫·斯大林的名言:“数量本身就是一种质量。”
Timothy Germann
@Crowfoot9
What?? There are currently 615 F35s in service with plans for more than 1300. There are only 12 SU 57s in service.
什么? ?目前有615架f35在役,计划超过1300架。目前只有12架SU-57在役。
@Crowfoot9
What?? There are currently 615 F35s in service with plans for more than 1300. There are only 12 SU 57s in service.
什么? ?目前有615架f35在役,计划超过1300架。目前只有12架SU-57在役。
Jason Rogers
@Timothy Germann
No need, deployment of S400 should be suffice to finish the job.
不需要,只要部署S400就足以胜任。
@Timothy Germann
No need, deployment of S400 should be suffice to finish the job.
不需要,只要部署S400就足以胜任。

Penis_Captivus
@Crowfoot9
The F-35 won't even pass the first test: takeoff.
F-35甚至无法通过第一道测试:起飞。
@Crowfoot9
The F-35 won't even pass the first test: takeoff.
F-35甚至无法通过第一道测试:起飞。
JJ_Rousseau
@Penis_Captivus
True, but in a ground fight the F-35 is impressive. As long as it doesn't need to leave the ground, it's a marvelous fighter jet
没错,但在地面作战中,F-35令人印象深刻。只要它不需要离开地面,它就是一架了不起的战斗机。
@Penis_Captivus
True, but in a ground fight the F-35 is impressive. As long as it doesn't need to leave the ground, it's a marvelous fighter jet
没错,但在地面作战中,F-35令人印象深刻。只要它不需要离开地面,它就是一架了不起的战斗机。

TheFatManRocks
@ambrosebear
Russia doesn't need to produce thousands; just enough for its own defense requirements.
俄罗斯不需要生产数以千计的战机,只需要满足自己的国防需求。
@ambrosebear
Russia doesn't need to produce thousands; just enough for its own defense requirements.
俄罗斯不需要生产数以千计的战机,只需要满足自己的国防需求。
ambrosebear
@TheFatManRocks
When Russia allows it's leaders to assassinate and then wrongfully jail their political opponents when assassination attempts fail, then Russia is not entitled to a defense until such behavior ends, in my view.
Right?
Release your political prisoner and thereby rejoin the international community of nations who should be allowed to, as you indicate, produce enough military weapons for their own defense, Comrade.
在我看来,如果俄罗斯允许它的领导人暗杀他们的政治对手,然后在暗杀失败后错误地监禁他们,那么在这种行为结束之前,俄罗斯没有资格辩护。
对吧?
释放你们的政治犯,从而重新加入国际社会,如你所说,那些国家应该被允许为自己的国防生产足够的军事武器,同志们。
@TheFatManRocks
When Russia allows it's leaders to assassinate and then wrongfully jail their political opponents when assassination attempts fail, then Russia is not entitled to a defense until such behavior ends, in my view.
Right?
Release your political prisoner and thereby rejoin the international community of nations who should be allowed to, as you indicate, produce enough military weapons for their own defense, Comrade.
在我看来,如果俄罗斯允许它的领导人暗杀他们的政治对手,然后在暗杀失败后错误地监禁他们,那么在这种行为结束之前,俄罗斯没有资格辩护。
对吧?
释放你们的政治犯,从而重新加入国际社会,如你所说,那些国家应该被允许为自己的国防生产足够的军事武器,同志们。
Jason Rogers
@ambrosebear
You don't hold the moral high ground, Navalny the embezzler was highly paid by western intelligence. If you break laws, you can expect the consequences, it isn't for you to question the sovereignty of the Russian legal system.
你没有道德制高点,贪污的纳瓦尔尼是西方情报机构高薪雇佣。如果你违反了法律,你可以预料到后果,你无权质疑俄罗斯法律体系的主权。
@ambrosebear
You don't hold the moral high ground, Navalny the embezzler was highly paid by western intelligence. If you break laws, you can expect the consequences, it isn't for you to question the sovereignty of the Russian legal system.
你没有道德制高点,贪污的纳瓦尔尼是西方情报机构高薪雇佣。如果你违反了法律,你可以预料到后果,你无权质疑俄罗斯法律体系的主权。
Rodgers Russia
@ambrosebear
How? We are broke, busted, flat. We are $31 trillion in debt and we have to borrow every dime we spend on the military. We are out of money, swimming in debt. We didn't seem to have learned anything from the collapse of the Soviet unx. .
如何实现?我们破产了,没钱了。我们有31万亿美元的债务,我们在军事上花的每一分钱都要借钱。我们没钱了,负债累累。我们似乎没有从苏联的解体中学到任何东西。
@ambrosebear
How? We are broke, busted, flat. We are $31 trillion in debt and we have to borrow every dime we spend on the military. We are out of money, swimming in debt. We didn't seem to have learned anything from the collapse of the Soviet unx. .
如何实现?我们破产了,没钱了。我们有31万亿美元的债务,我们在军事上花的每一分钱都要借钱。我们没钱了,负债累累。我们似乎没有从苏联的解体中学到任何东西。
ambrosebear
@Rodgers Russia
Re-read my post as it explains a reasonable alternative to debt created by military spending. In the meantime, we nationalize the entire military industrial complex, make them all civil servant at cost plus, and eliminate the profit motive.
Simultaneously we print our own national currency at cost (pennies on the hundreds and thousands of dollars) and eliminate the Fed (private banking cartel) which charges tax payers for money the Fed prints at face value.
Finally, eliminate all patents on pharmaceuticals after 2 years so that these may, thereafter be reproduced "at cost" and save taxpayers and public health services billions and billions in excessive profits to Big Pharma.
These three, basic, American policies combine to easily eliminate the trillions in national debt almost instantly.
再好好看一下我发的帖子,因为它解释了一个合理的替代军事开支造成的债务。与此同时,我们将整个军工复合体国有化,让他们都成为高薪的公务员,并消除利润动机。
与此同时,我们按成本价印刷我们自己国家的货币(成千上万美元只需要几便士成本),并消除美联储(私人银行财阀)对纳税人收取美联储按面值印制货币的费用。
最后,在两年后取消所有药品专利,以便今后可以“成本价”复制这些专利,为纳税人和公共卫生服务机构节省数十亿美元的原本要支付给大型制药公司的超额利润。
这三种基本的美国政策结合在一起,可以轻而易举地几乎立即消除数万亿美元的国债。
@Rodgers Russia
Re-read my post as it explains a reasonable alternative to debt created by military spending. In the meantime, we nationalize the entire military industrial complex, make them all civil servant at cost plus, and eliminate the profit motive.
Simultaneously we print our own national currency at cost (pennies on the hundreds and thousands of dollars) and eliminate the Fed (private banking cartel) which charges tax payers for money the Fed prints at face value.
Finally, eliminate all patents on pharmaceuticals after 2 years so that these may, thereafter be reproduced "at cost" and save taxpayers and public health services billions and billions in excessive profits to Big Pharma.
These three, basic, American policies combine to easily eliminate the trillions in national debt almost instantly.
再好好看一下我发的帖子,因为它解释了一个合理的替代军事开支造成的债务。与此同时,我们将整个军工复合体国有化,让他们都成为高薪的公务员,并消除利润动机。
与此同时,我们按成本价印刷我们自己国家的货币(成千上万美元只需要几便士成本),并消除美联储(私人银行财阀)对纳税人收取美联储按面值印制货币的费用。
最后,在两年后取消所有药品专利,以便今后可以“成本价”复制这些专利,为纳税人和公共卫生服务机构节省数十亿美元的原本要支付给大型制药公司的超额利润。
这三种基本的美国政策结合在一起,可以轻而易举地几乎立即消除数万亿美元的国债。
Rodgers Russia
@ambrosebear
There is a limit to printing fiat currency, and we are approaching the end of our credit card. We are so in debt that even stealing every thing from the defense and drug companies would not come close to covering our debt - and then what we do next year, when those industries collapse?
印刷法定货币是有限制的,我们的信用卡也快到期了。我们负债累累,即使从国防和制药公司窃取一切,也不足以偿还我们的债务——那么,明年当这些行业崩溃时,我们该怎么办?
@ambrosebear
There is a limit to printing fiat currency, and we are approaching the end of our credit card. We are so in debt that even stealing every thing from the defense and drug companies would not come close to covering our debt - and then what we do next year, when those industries collapse?
印刷法定货币是有限制的,我们的信用卡也快到期了。我们负债累累,即使从国防和制药公司窃取一切,也不足以偿还我们的债务——那么,明年当这些行业崩溃时,我们该怎么办?


PhasedArray
@BrickellPrinces
we have 11 Aircraft carriers to at least try from, how many do you have? 1? lol we own the ocean dude.
我们至少有11艘航母可以尝试,你们有多少航母? 1艘 ?哈哈,海洋是我们的,伙计。
@BrickellPrinces
we have 11 Aircraft carriers to at least try from, how many do you have? 1? lol we own the ocean dude.
我们至少有11艘航母可以尝试,你们有多少航母? 1艘 ?哈哈,海洋是我们的,伙计。
ZooWatch
@PhasedArray
Except for launching strikes against third world countries with little defensive and next to no offensive capability just like the USA's usual opponents since 1945, the aircraft carrier today has become as obsolete as the battleship was in WWII. Torpedoes no longer required, submerged submarine launched missiles have ended their former supremacy.
除了像美国自1945年以来的通常对手那样,对几乎没有防御能力和几乎没有进攻能力的第三世界国家发动攻击之外,今天的航空母舰已经像二战时的战舰一样过时了。不再需要鱼雷,水下潜艇发射的导弹终结了航母以前的霸主地位。
@PhasedArray
Except for launching strikes against third world countries with little defensive and next to no offensive capability just like the USA's usual opponents since 1945, the aircraft carrier today has become as obsolete as the battleship was in WWII. Torpedoes no longer required, submerged submarine launched missiles have ended their former supremacy.
除了像美国自1945年以来的通常对手那样,对几乎没有防御能力和几乎没有进攻能力的第三世界国家发动攻击之外,今天的航空母舰已经像二战时的战舰一样过时了。不再需要鱼雷,水下潜艇发射的导弹终结了航母以前的霸主地位。
Ipac1
@PhasedArray
Do they even have one? Last i heard a crane fell on it, and it hasn't left the dock since.
他们还有一艘航母吗?上次我听说有起重机砸在上面,从那以后它就没离开过码头。
@PhasedArray
Do they even have one? Last i heard a crane fell on it, and it hasn't left the dock since.
他们还有一艘航母吗?上次我听说有起重机砸在上面,从那以后它就没离开过码头。
Brownbalrog
@PhasedArray
HAHAHAHAHAHA, Yes the US carriers, that couldn`t even engage in Syria until the land based forces had dealt with a couple of anti ship systems to allow them to get into range without being blow out of the water. Carriers are great against 3rd world countries..against a modern opponent the carriers are merely large targets.
哈哈,是的,美国航母甚至不能参与叙利亚战争,直到陆军部队处理掉几个反舰系统,让他们进入射程而不被炸出水面。航母是对付第三世界国家的好武器。对于一个现代的对手来说,航母仅仅是大大的活靶子。
@PhasedArray
HAHAHAHAHAHA, Yes the US carriers, that couldn`t even engage in Syria until the land based forces had dealt with a couple of anti ship systems to allow them to get into range without being blow out of the water. Carriers are great against 3rd world countries..against a modern opponent the carriers are merely large targets.
哈哈,是的,美国航母甚至不能参与叙利亚战争,直到陆军部队处理掉几个反舰系统,让他们进入射程而不被炸出水面。航母是对付第三世界国家的好武器。对于一个现代的对手来说,航母仅仅是大大的活靶子。
Jason Rogers
@Brownbalrog
Carriers are best served as eco-structures for the coral reef. yep much needed social housing for the fish and coral.
航母最适合作为珊瑚礁的生态结构场所。是的,鱼类和珊瑚急需住所。
@Brownbalrog
Carriers are best served as eco-structures for the coral reef. yep much needed social housing for the fish and coral.
航母最适合作为珊瑚礁的生态结构场所。是的,鱼类和珊瑚急需住所。
Observatory
@BrickellPrinces
Funny, the article forgets to mention "Kinzhal" - the hypersonic weapon that is decades ahead. SU57 is capable of carrying it, doesn't it?
有趣的是,这篇文章忘了提到“匕首(Kinzhal)”——一种超前几十年的超高音速武器。苏-57有能力携带它,不是吗?
@BrickellPrinces
Funny, the article forgets to mention "Kinzhal" - the hypersonic weapon that is decades ahead. SU57 is capable of carrying it, doesn't it?
有趣的是,这篇文章忘了提到“匕首(Kinzhal)”——一种超前几十年的超高音速武器。苏-57有能力携带它,不是吗?
TiMin
@Observatory
I think the plane dedicated to Kinzhal is the MiG31
我认为携带匕首(Kinzhal)超高音速导弹的飞机是米格-31战机。
@Observatory
I think the plane dedicated to Kinzhal is the MiG31
我认为携带匕首(Kinzhal)超高音速导弹的飞机是米格-31战机。
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